After that kick someones ass with a goal for liberating a "Rival" Tributary(Your ethos) or a vassal/protectorate/standart tributary and a "Federation" Tributary. ago. Make sure they have plenty of food - unfed vassals can starve themselves into revolt. r/Stellaris • Frustrating Vassal mechanics - Even with maximum loyalty, the most favourable terms possible and overwhelming fleet power compared to them: It's impossible to contract even the smallest payment or to specialise their vassal type. Right now the only worth while vassal is tributary as direct vassals are too weak and bring no benefit to be worth it. Unlike vassals, tributaries don't really help you in a war, but if it's a weak empire their fleet would be useless anyway and their resources are put in better use upkeeping your. . You can't force vassalise your own tributary (since you can't declare war on them), but you can ask them to become your vassal diplomatically. Basically vassalization is a stopgap to integration most of the time, unless you're playing with the feudalism Civic. You don't need the imperial government for the feudal society civic either. It may be easier to gain technology advantage with protectorate. The first method involves going to war with a target empire. A vassal has still some use, even if their military support is questionable, e. Once that has happened you should then be able to choose a specialisation. Stellaris Real-time strategy Strategy video game Gaming comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A straga27 Necrophage •. Basically sectors that cost nothing but only give 25% of raw resources. The casus belli lasts only for a year. Honestly, for AI ones under you, it's hard to beat Tributary or normal vassal for any of the bonus lol. ago. I have no idea on that. Vassals that have already been specialized do not automatically demote even if their tech falls way behind. Just experience from playing seems like AIs are just not setting up offices for me. There are a few different ways to create vassals in the game. make the target empire give in to the demands of Vassalization or Tributatization. The cost of vassal integration needs to be many times bigger. #3. Releasing vassals and forming federations with them. Help with Vassals. Tributaries and vassals are just two different types of subject empires, alongside protectorates, subsidiaries and others. I guess good vassals would need a proper diplomacy system and a competent AI, both of which Stellaris is unfortunately woefully lacking in. thinking between vassal or tributary, if vassal it's 4k additional fleet power in wars (my combined is 8k), but unreliable when declaring wars, usually I want to have all fleet. And there Make the Tributary or Make the Vassal options are. Most importantly, some empires don't want to be a certain kinds of vassal types. As a hegemony leader you can just kick them out when you want, let your other tributaries swarm them, so you can annex or vassalize them. •. Wars are how mid-game and end-game borders are usually drawn. Vassal states were common among the empires of the Near East, dating back to the era of the Egyptian, Hittite and Mitanni conflict, as well as ancient China. • 3 days ago. Steps to reproduce the issue. By annexing them as conqueror you get ALL of it! AI was NEVER on pair with a good player without difficulty boost, but right now it is especially weak. Vassal ai is completely useless. This is Professor Stellaris and this is your crash course for Stellaris Console Edition Guide to. Vassals stay basically the same as they are now. The option to change them back to a Vassal/Tributary doesn’t show. 1; 2. Going by the Blorg stream, vassals work pretty much the same as they do in EU4. May 24, 2016 @ 4:00pm Protectorate vs. Claims stuff on a different empire, make them a tributary. So as a weaker empire, you rather want to be inside a hedgemony than be a vassal. For protectorates, you actually gain influence, iirc. galadon3 Nov 27, 2017 @ 8:12am. They can be made plentiful or outright disabled via the galaxy generation options . In a perfect run you would just grow large nough to start the vassalisation chain and then even shrink yourself a bit if over 100. 7: 0 to 225 Vassal limited to 45% maximum tax Subsidiary or Tributary cannot receive subsidy;. 4. Vassals are very bad. Other than that, as a vassal or tributary you can't freely stop being a vassal. i beleive the difference is that tributary pay you 25% of their energy and minerals and still or mostly independent meaning they can still colonize and i beleve they dont help out durring wars where as vassals go to war with you are not indepent they can be intergrated in to your empire where as tributarys can. In essence, a Tributary is a more independent vassal that you cannot really control. This mod aims to improve the Domination tradition so that it is an appealing option at any stage of the game and also adds several new vassal and tributary types that are more evocative and useful to an overlord. It is developed by Paradox Development Studio and published by Paradox Interactive. submit or rebel), you're completely at the whim of what your vassal deems acceptable which is reflected in the acceptance value. After that kick someones ass with a goal for liberating a "Rival" Tributary(Your ethos) or a vassal/protectorate/standart tributary and a "Federation" Tributary. Most empires will have Vassal/Tributary as options. Stellaris Real-time strategy Strategy video game Gaming comments. I have a big fleet advantage and it is gives me only +14. -25% minerals and energy to your vassal's fleet. A Workshop Item for Stellaris. Presets have a list of default terms, and can have. in stellaris, tributaries are just a different type of vassal that pays you resources but doesn't follow you into your wars. I've also heard this is the best way to get a vassal to agree to a special vassal status, by trading away heavy tributes for the status change. 30% science generation, for -50% fleet everything. Vassal, Subsidiary, Tributary, Protectorate, Bulwark, and so on. To see what we can do to make your empire bigger and stronger than ever before, check. Get them to agree to it themselves, or force them to submit with a war. All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos Workshop News Guides Reviews. A vassal or client state can be diplomatically annexed by its overlord through the Annex vassal option. About this site. < >Stellaris. In vanilla if you can get an early tributary by say year 50 you’ve basically won. Empires of all ethics have the option to leave a subject as vanilla. Edit: says cannot build more than one. I don't believe that a vassal/tributary can have subjugates themselves so I. That's every major, and most minor, DLC. 1 Answer. When subjugating neighboring empires, is there any advantage to one form of subjugation over the other?If the Vassal AI would ignore the Fleet power it would result in endless Rebellions that get always quelled and players would be annoyed to no end about them, Whack-a-mole Deluxe. Both work a bit differently. They'll split off into a new, vassalised empire. A tributary turns into a vassal if it has something like 50% of your technologies researched. I have a big fleet advantage and it is gives me only +14. The only way to instruct a science vessel to explore an unstabilised wormhole is via the right click menu. Vassals can lead to scenario where your ships have to go through friend space to reach your other owned sectors. If you have 250K strong total, let them possess a 50K fleet and then they'll help you in wars. Protectorate is a special vassal type that any vassal will automatically convert to if they are far inferior than you in tech. But i want to role play as an empire that rules core worlds while letting vassals rule in their stead but sadly their is no real benefit to vassalizing anyone apart from tributary (which makes feudal society useless. If you're declaring war against them, it should be near the bottom of the wargoals list. Vassals Expanded and Reworked. Without it all vassals are good for are buffer states. When subjugating neighboring empires, is there any advantage to one form of subjugation over the other?Despite not having Domination Tradition, I can request them to become Protectorate and declare a war to force them in. They are all extremely strong perks with them. Well, actually, it's relatively easy to make them accept to become a specialist vassal. Lets find out. The inability to do so is one of the main weaknesses of the MegaCorp empire type. Unfortunately, the Groots war goal just happened to be "Make Tributary", which I didn't realize removed the Moths as my overlord. Tributaries themselves are kinda meh and supposedly pretty bugged in 1. Two of the most popular subject empire types are tributary and vassal. When an AI empire is about to declare war it will first. A prolonged fight against both would have been a problem, but liberating the one guy had a. I just did this to break an enemy apart from his vassal so that I could conquer them individually later. They cannot declare war, and are forced to side with their Overlord in wars. Plus, if you've gotten said protectorate by doing something like. . How much information the screen offers depends on the Intel Level on the contacted empire: At the top we can see a recap of the other civ Empire, similar to player. Since you can do contract negotiations, there shouldn't be any difference right because you can just set all the categories to the same setting right? How to make vassals/tributary. Depends on where in the game I am, early to mid game I usually go tributary / vassal to keep my research and unity down (I don't really need more real estate, as I beeline for habitats). For Stellaris 2. Subject contracts start with a “preset”. It is far easier and faster than trying to conquer individual planets. Go to Stellaris r/Stellaris. Empires of all ethics have. Else vassalize if you can under 100 war score. Doesn't add up. However, even after becoming a tributary and having diplomatic freedom, I can't declare war on my overlord as declaring a war againts them need the approval of their. If having another prospectorium gives you more basic resources than you can use, then the entire premise of the thread is misaimed: both a prospectorium and a basic resource tributary would be bad choices. "In an Allegiance War, you seek to wrest control of the vassals that have pledged Secret Fealty to you, and they will join in on the attack on their former Overlord. Authors description: Exalted Domination – Vassals And Tributaries. Diplomacy screen, showing a situation where the player empire has little intel on the empire. They won’t agree. I have noticed on some empires I cannot visualise them, I can only make them a tributary. on a side note I just found inwards perfectionists can create tributary's instead of vassals. 2k malus. #2. 806 14. 17. rules pretty harsh now: -must have domination tradision. Vassals can be everything, from tributary-like contracts, to specialist contracts, protectorates, offensive, defensive or no military allies at all. 25% minerals and energy to grow your fleet. Tributaries The way tributaries are set up in Stellaris, they can be excellent subjects from an economic point of view. 0 unless otherwise noted. Warhawg01. Making federations baseline and replacing one or two of the points with something vassalization related could go a long way. ago. Trouble is War declaration is NOT an event stellaris automatically pauses for by default. Death Diamond Oct 2, 2022 @ 5:44am. Since you want the tributary to join your federation, I doubt this is the case, but nevertheless, waiting for them to turn into a vassal and being integrated is an option . The extra credits really make that much of a difference. Content is available under Attribution-ShareAlike 3. Make Vassal: The empire is forced to become a vassal to the victory. the master gets a button labeled "request vassal forces" during a time of war which gives them control of the Vassals military until. Copyright © 2016 Paradox Interactive AB. In the case of creating a vassal or tributary state, your Wargoal is to subjugate and control your foe. Then you can integrate them 10 years later (which deletes their branch offices). Thread starter unmerged(350868) Start date Jul 10, 2021; Jump to latest Follow Reply Menu We have updated our. Since you can stack anchorage star bases for increased naval cap, and because upkeep costs so much more now, the extra fleet. When subjugating neighboring empires, is there any advantage to one form of subjugation over the other?If your combined military is greater than the overlord, they should start a war for independence, and pull you into it. Now about 50 years later I have everyone as a tributary or a vassal but my empire is getting bigger and bigger and everything gets more expensive. You should get more influence than them, thanks to spamming the Ministry of truth. Pairs well with the +200 fleet cap ascension. Tributary will really boost your economy, so you can put out a lot more research and alloys and have less of your pops mining and energy production. I just was small, capped by my core planets, but with a good tech and good income. Their trust increases overtime and when they become lawful you don’t have to be anxious about it any more. Tributaries give 25% of their energy/minerals, which is okay, but the AI just might not be able to produce enough to make it worth it. 5. Saying no to overlord contracts costs them influence, so by spamming the contract of them over and over they eventually run out and have to agree. Tributaries are great if you are playing tall, and need the resources to make up for your lack of planets. Make them vassals in the late game so you can integrate them or purge them. Not once was I able to make another empire a vassal or tributary through diplomacy. You will want at least one of every specialized vassal for the unique benefits and overlord holding. Vassal produces 50 engineering, 15% would be 7 (think they round down 7. sounds like how a vassal empire would act if they weren't loyal Loyalty isn't a factor, or at least, the game-indicated Loyalty stat isn't a factor. 36 comments. Reply reply more reply. The same thing happens when attempting to declare on other tributaries. First the Overlord implicitly guarantees the independance of the Vassal, but without any influence cost. 6 comments. What does the L in L-Gate stand for? (Correct answers only) 167. I'll be discussing what Vassals and Tributaries. They are probably more useful in one of the. But yeah, the moment vassals get involved half the tree becomes utterly useless and the other half gets reduced in value. (since no empire wanted to be my vassal) and crushed almost all of the galaxy The thing is, since they can’t be protectorates,. I RP that the overlords install some of their leaders onto their vassal's planets to look over. If you're not domineeringly powerful, vassal is a good choice to set them to follow your ships and act as extra power in most fights. I don't think I had more than 3 corvettes until 15 years in (except when I had to beat the. Previously in Stellaris, subjugation was rarely a more compelling option than simple conquest, and being subjugated often essentially meant a permanent decline of your empire and a “Game Over” screen in your near future. Yes, especially if they are a vassal / tributary they can just ask me for stuff. (AIs consider going to war when [disloyal vassal power > overlord + loyal vassal power], over some multiple (1. There should be a “Create Vassal” button in the bottom left corner. I’m currently trying to get secret fealty from one of my neighbors in order to steal him from his current overlord, but (aside from being in a federation), the biggest thing preventing it is that he doesn’t like his vassal type has a tributary. IMO tributaries are worth it in the early game. You can't integrate them, you can't prohibit their expansion, you can't limit their diplomatic options, you can't build any holdings and you can't give them subsidiaries as their overlord. They are probably more useful in one of the next patches due to tributary states and maybe some other changes (which is currently missing compared to EU4). Thanks beta testers, now I can wait for a sale. or we cut part empire as our vassal. Now I would like to conquer my third enemy. I have 1 specialist vassal that changed from tributary (or subsidiary)but the option to do this it's too random to appear (cannot choose vassal types) even when asking to other empires to become vassals(i am stronger enough)3. Vassal is mostly for. Description. While a Protectorate, their Overlord gets a slight bonus to Influence. This mod adds some flavor to pirates. Tributaries The way tributaries are set up in. And there Make the Tributary or Make the. So there is no reason to not integrate a vassal unless you are fine with having a worthless pile of pops on the map. For a regular empire, it can happen the other way too -- you start with a Tributary, then it auto-switches to a Protectorate, and then later it auto-switches to a Vassal -- losing your Tributary resource contract entirely, you have to spend Influence to re-negotiate, and whatever you negotiate is thrown away if it swaps into Protectorate again. It does not get refunded, because the Vassal needs to use THEIR influence to be able to refuse the offer. Previously in Stellaris, subjugation was rarely a more compelling option than simple conquest, and being subjugated often essentially meant a permanent decline of your empire and a “Game Over” screen in your near future. 7 to −3. If you want to split another one, start a war for a tributary or vassal. 9 ‘Caelum’ is Out, What’s. . It’s absolute madness they are refusing to adjust this seeing how you can play as bootleg Zerg and Tyranids in the Appearances screen and both factions are the classic Progenitor Devouring Swarm archetype. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the 4X grand strategy game Stellaris by Paradox Development Studio. Ever since the Stellaris Overlord expansion, and even before, I hoped for a more modular subject system in EUIV. You'll basically take colonies and upon ending the war, they turn into a new empire matching your empire ethics. . #4. It is easier to vassal a mediun sized empire then it is to conquer it. Give every vassal a 1000 Mineral and 1000 energy starting gift. Actually, they can! Turning someone into a tributary makes them your subject, and hegemonies auto-include subjects as members. This is what will have them give you more science tribute, and since a higher % of. The issue is when I declared an expel branch war against them it didn't work. See screenshots for new tradition effects. Countries can use the Demand Subject Transfer diplomatic action to peacefully take existing subject states of other nations if they are disloyal, and the target has at least 80 opinion. Even in the old subject system, which console currently uses, vassals only give you a portion of their own naval cap and support you with whatever fleets they manage to field which a 1 system vassal will have very little. It doesn’t work and people have reported it as a bug and got “working as intended. They get a one sided defense pact with. 1 This mod adds some flavor to pirates. A vassal is kind of a 'extension' of your empire: you join each other in wars, they cannot expand or conduct indipendent diplomacy and they boost your naval strenght. This mod aims to improve the Domination tradition so that it is an appealing option at any stage of the game and also adds several new vassal and tributary types that are more evocative and useful to an overlord. Atunomous vassal gives you freedom to wage your own wars, but not to make. 6. Irbynx. There’s no option to scroll. Join. sounds like how a vassal empire would act if they weren't loyal Loyalty isn't a factor, or at least, the game-indicated Loyalty stat isn't a factor. Question about vassal criminal syndicate. You can do this by either vassalizing or stacking minus empire size modifiers. They are pretty inconsequential. Subsidiaries only pay energy, while tributaries pay both energy and minerals. Stellaris. I thought about getting claims but I wanted to use my influence for something else, so I thought I could make them my vassal and later integrate them. 7 to −3. Vassaling can make harder to conquer but not really if said vassals are in alliance with war controls. Tributaries do have a benefit to them. This page was last edited on 7 June 2023, at 11:13. It's also a lower war score cost. Not only should it be possible to transform a vassal into a tributary, but the reverse should be true too, provided the overlord is strong enough and relations good enough. Jun 9, 2019 @ 6:16pm Vassal system is broken. I don't really use the espionage system to know enough though. 5 influence. Open up the “Empires” tab, select the Empire you want to Vassalize, and click on the “Communicate” button. Through this window you will need to make the various demands/other things. All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos Workshop News Guides Reviews. Thread starter Thaduck; Start date May 9, 2022; Jump to latest Follow. 5. So my problem is that when i take control of enemy starbase/invade their planet i automatically gain control over it. A tributary gives you a portion of income. Plus, you won’t be spending the next 50 odd years fixing 3 happiness issues and 4. Both work a bit differently. GA with scaling is pretty fun. Name your federation Kow-Tow Federation(or something suitable) if you are a Celestial Empire or Tributary Gang if you are like me. Feb 21, 2014 2. I'm fairly sure I've made allies into vassals or at the very least Dynastic Marriages into vassals, but I'm wondering, after you make a nation a Tributary, can you later make that country a vassal? Just trying to plan my take over of Indonesia as Japan. The left side panel shows details of the selected empire, depending on empire type and intel level. They pay you tribute and that's it. Stellaris v3 version available here! This mod aims to improve the Domination tradition so that it is an appealing option at any stage of the game and also adds several new vassal and tributary types that are more evocative and useful to an overlord. Then again I'm running Glavious AI which doesn't seem to improve the AI that much (granted, there are 2 "equivalent" normal empires in 2400 and one of my federation members just quit the. They are probably more useful in one of the next patches due to tributary states and maybe some other changes (which is. Tribute is better for more powerful empires. If you drop a 600 influence cost vassalage negotiation on current vassal that has only 400 influence in their stockpile, they won't be able to refuse. Else liberate as many planets as you can to split up their empire. Is something wrong with getting Ai to become vassal/tributary/other ? Question I've just had a game where I could just demand other empires to become my vassal and it felt really really Easy. To do this method, whoever you’re trying to make your Vassal must be at peace. It’s your overlords job to protect you so you don’t really lose out, protecting 1 vassal isn’t a huge problem for a overlord. Stellaris > General Discussions > Topic Details. But all in all it's just meh. Ascension 1: mastery of nature. I hope this is fixed because the potential for these systems is great!385K subscribers in the Stellaris community. All systems captured, one but one planet is occupied. Now that you're part of a federation there's no way for you to actively ask for independence. All that said, Protectorates are by far the best subject type to stock up on, for that sweet +0. Vassels build there own. Heck, sometimes any vassalage deal is good enough if it keeps them voting. How to make vassals/tributary. Vassalisation war goal doesnt even appear. Stellaris v3 version available here! This mod aims to improve the Domination tradition so that it is an appealing option at any stage of the game and also adds several new vassal and tributary types that are more evocative and useful to an overlord. There are a few different ways to create vassals in the game. Prospectorium advantage is that they will get bonus on basic, advance and strategic rerources, has chance to find deposit in space and will never be downgrade to protectorate but get nerf on science production. I don't want to release them into a vassal/tributary. Tributaries are cool. This page was last edited on 7 June 2023, at 11:13. Each vassal type has certain limits on what you can demmand of them. A tributary of basic resources would be just as redundant. . I've beaten two of them recently, made one a tributary and the other one my vassal. << Tributary is a mix of various effects. So the differences are that Hegemons don't give any contribution to your empire like a Vassal or Tributary does, so in that sense they're a little weaker. Then I turn on population controls, displace or purge them to make room for my species. Stellaris Real-time strategy Strategy video game Gaming. Ergo, you pick neither, and you pick a different vassal type instead- like a. Empires of all ethics have the option to leave a subject as vanilla vassal or tributary. The only options are vassal and tributary. Like Vassal 1 focuses all its invention on making a laser which can heat. 3 came out I find it to be rather difficult to get either of those options. Get app Get the Reddit app Log In Log in to Reddit. Yea. . It's sorta like the political version of slaves. Temporarily you can keep them as buffers between you and some powerful neighbor. In Stellaris, stronger empires can bring weaker empires under their rule. Vassalise and Make Tributary diplpmacy option avaliable immediately and can be used on equivelant Empires Cannot integrate vassals. From the wiki: Vassals that an empire possess for longer than 3600 days (10 years) can be peacefully "integrated" by paying influence, at a rate of 5 influence a month. Stellaris. 5. . I'm currently in the mid-game of Stellaris and building up a pretty big empire. make every three planets above my cap into a new vassal. There certainly are some gains from having direct (or sector) control over planets instead of letting other empires technically own them, but also some drawbacks. Getting empires to become your vassal/tributary in trade for your protection. Vassal being bulwark but without the resources making them even weaker because they would have to compensate themselves towards the basic resources theyd be getting from me. Im Gegensatz zu Nebenflüssen leisten Vasallen keinerlei Tribut. Make the feudal society civic kind of useless as no matter how powerful they get and apart from fighting they give you. You can't force vassalise your own tributary (since you can't declare war on them), but you can ask them to become your vassal diplomatically. You can only hope that your overlord leaves the federation or something similar. As such, tributaries are better than subsidiaries, so do not pick megacorp for subsidiaries. A lot of the articles i did read were saying the overall advantage of a Tributary was that they provide resources where as a Vassal doesn't. Protectorates Becoming Tributaries Instead of Normal Vassals is Very Frustrating Bankipriel Mar 29, 2023 Jump to latest Follow Reply It is very frustrating after. Then (to test) I let them both go. #2. Well it depends. i have all the dlc and have tried restarting my game but idk what the. Sie können auch nicht expandieren, was gut sein kann, wenn Sie sich Sorgen machen, dass Untertanenimperien versuchen, sich in Ihr Territorium einzumischen. The tributary in question is not a federation associate and obviously has no other diplomatic connections to these two. A number of factors influence vassal loyalty in Stellaris, from the terms of your original contract with the subject empire and the trade deals you broker with them, to whether you declare war on. Being a vassal in Stellaris is unequivocally being in a vulnerable position, at risk of being integrated for very little potential gains. They won’t agree. It leads to some funny (and frustating) situations like when you claim all the enemies planets so they will disapear, instead of becoming a vassall. This is separate from the loyalty mechanic. ; About Stellaris Wiki; Mobile viewAs it is now, when you win a vassalization war, you take the vassal and the claims. Sort of, but not really. This video is sponsored by Paradox Interactive. g. Prospectorium advantage is that they will get bonus on basic, advance and strategic rerources, has chance to find deposit in space and will never be downgrade to protectorate but get nerf on science production. For the first 50 years, that is decent. I don't remember if it's tributary or subsidiary, I'm playing megacorp. The AI is just terribly stupid, and without the boosting stats (which, again, are lost once it becomes the vassal of a player), the AI just can't win. Now your tributary gives you energy and minerals, add part of their naval cap to the federation fleet, and they're pulled into any wars you're involved in, because they count as federation members. #5. 2. You should get more influence than them, thanks to spamming the Ministry of truth. From Dev Diary #247. Vassals have very limited diplomacy with other empires, and cannot build new starbases. The easiest way is to beat them up in a preliminary war. You can chose between making them a Tributary or a Vassal (subsidiary if you are megacorp). Tributaries are the only useful form of vassal, but by the time you’re actually able to vassalize an AI, you don’t really need the small amount of. Therefore, managing vassals is crucial to the success of your empire in Stellaris. Meaning if you dont win fast enough, you can actually lose against it due to ticking warscore. Stellaris Dev Diary #281 - A Message from Minamar Specialized Industries. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses. 5 influence. This is an awkward. However, vassals do drain your influence and cost even more to integrate. Onward, Toward Perfection (A Stellaris Story)-- My Guide to Traits, Ethics, Origins, Civics,. Starts off OK, but future added features never offset the raising prices. 5. I've been watching the Overlord multiplayer stream (mostly Montu) and I was wondering what exactly the difference is between a tributary vs a standard vassal in the upcoming patch. Upon gaining a vassal or tributary an overlord will be immediately prompted to choose a subject type with options based on their ethics. What are the pros and cons of doing this compared to just taking my chances of dying to the xenophobes?In Stellaris, becoming a vassal of a regular empire means gameover 99% of the time. " 1. While a Tributary can expand as normal, but does not join your wars. Just turn all your non border and core systems into vassals and take the reduced research and unity costs. I remember them doing this pre-2. Vassals can be lawful or the opposite in which case they will rebel if given the opportunity. And for the stronger empire, you could benefit from having weak allies, but still stronger-than-vassal allies to aid you. I have positive relations and 100 loyalty. Well it isn't very obvious, in any case I still say the vassal (Tributary) system is crap. .